19 May 2010

S Dunstan ... a problem

A great Pontiff, S Dunstan, whom we celebrate today; a great reformer. But is he part of the Patrimony?

He was, as I am sure you know, very unenthusiastic about Married Priests (or concubinarii, as we used to be called). And Bishop Edwin, with whom I agree about all things, has identified a married clergy as an essential part of the Anglican Patrimony. Next time I see him I must ask him how we get round this knotty little problem.

Incidentally, it is not only presbyters who, in those far off days, manifested a lack of awareness of being called to celibacy. I remember reading about one of the early occupants of the See of Ardfert in the County of Kerry, whom annalists distinguished from both his predecessors and his successors as having been 'chaste'. (Bishop Eamonn Casey was a later bishop of this same see.)


+ Edwin said...

Maybe it is only as Rome gets to see a functioning Ordinariate, blessed with marvellous clergy wives, that they will decide that the extraordinary permission for married ordinands can be safely extended. It is our wives who will persuade them, not us.
Oh, and Alcuin was the son and grandson of priests; and my spellcheck for him proposed oil-can!

Christian said...

I have said this before and I say it again: the pre-Reformation English Catholic Church's only modern decedent is the post-Reformation English Catholic Church. The Anglican Patrimony is about the Catholic Movement within the Anglican Communion. Any other reading is contrary to historical truth and offensive to recusant and convert alike.

Flambeaux said...

Christian, apparently the Holy Father disagrees with you.

Joshua said...

Christian does have a point, sorry to say! in that the heirs of the recusants - who did die for their Faith - get rather cheesed off at those who descend from a long line of conformists now at last being welcomed back.

Then again, the Parable of the Prodigal Son obviously applies!

Christian said...

Not then again Joshua! That parable tells us that the prodigal son is welcomed back with open arms and great jubilation (Deo gracias) but it also says that the son who was always loyal owns the entire estate in the future. That is to say, those who have always been loyal never loose their place of superior dignity.

P.S. Flambeaux, a) the Holy Father never said that the Anglo-Catholics could usurp the heritage of the English Martyrs and b) the Holy Father may be infallible in faith and morals but it does not mean he knows more about the historical situation in England.

Fr LR said...

Christian, why so hasty to judge Anglican Catholics who venerate great men and women? I can't see that you or any modern day "recusant" has any more claim to the Catholic martyrs of the Reformation than we do. You all stood by and let it, the Reformation, happen all over again forty years ago and most didn't even shed a tear.

Christian said...

How dare you. The new Mass is, unlike the BCP, valid (if an impoverishment), no direct heresy's have been committed by the pope in Rome, there is no schism. The problems of V2 are nothing on the outrages of the Reformation. It is comments like that which make RCs so concerned about letting this Ordinariate thing happen. I fully welcome such people as Fr Hunwicke, though I might disagree with him on minor issues, but that sort of suggestion shows that you have a complete lack of understanding of what Catholicism is.

The Raven (C. Corax) said...

You are being rather precious, Christian, as well as taking a "Wir Sind Kirche" approach to Catholicism: we do not get to choose who is or is not a Catholic, that is in the hands of the Lord and his servant the Pope, not ours (let's not forget that many of us are only on the barque of Peter by accident of birth, rather than by inclination).
Your approach to Anglican Catholics ignores high-church Anglican thought of the last five centuries, much of which can be characterised as a conscious or subconscious yearning to return to the status quo ante the deformation.
I would add that I am more likely to see a dignified celebration to mark one of the English Martyrs in my local CofE establishment than at Mass in my home parish.
I am very glad that the Holy Father has lowered the lifeboat of the Ordinariate and I hope that many will come to avail themselves of it (I suspect that many of us pew fodder will be inclined to attend Ordinariate Masses to escape te Polyester Masses of our current pastors!).

William Hyland said...

St. Dunstan belongs to Roman Catholics, Anglican Catholics & Orthodox, together, not at the expense of one another. That is the only way forward.